OWNERSHIP: Yada Yada Yada

["William B. Ryan" <w_b_ryan@yahoo.com>]

Incidentally, there is nothing deceptive in using the
JBM trademark in our business, since I invented it...
-----------------------
------------------------

Of course, you invented it, and awarded it to
yourself!  Why didn't I think of that?  Why didn't any
of us think of that?  Perhaps you should prominently
include this admission as a disclaimer included with
the text that is on your for profit Website, promoting
your services in competition with other "consultants,"
which continues to state--and I'm directly quoting the
text--the exact words--on your Website:

"The Justice-Based ManagementSM (JBMSM) mark 
certifies that a company that displays this mark on 
its products is managed in a manner consistent with 
JBMSM standards and criteria as defined and approved 
by the Center for Economic and Social Justice (CESJ) 
and any licensing board approved by CESJ. This mark 
also certifies that a consultant or consulting group 
is qualified to provide JBMSM consulting and 
educational services, and subscribes to the philosophy
and operates according to the principles, standards
and criteria of economic and social justice as defined
on the CESJ web site at http://www.cesj.org "

You persist in failing to explain why this is not
deceptive trade practice.

Wouldn't it be easier to come clean and correct your
Website, than all this effort blowing the smokescreen?

Sieg Heil.

P.S.

> >>Libel is not protected speech under the First
> >>Amendment, in case you 
> >>didn't know.
------------------------------------

Actually, Norm, all speech--repeat, all speech--shall
I repeat it once again?--all speech--is
constitutionally protected in the United States,
unlike many jurisdictions, for example, Canada.  I
thought you were a lawyer, for god's sake.  You should
have known that.  Perhaps you did, and just trying to
intimidate the good folks at COG, tax exempt and
thereby funded to that extent by the public, that they
are.  Questions of libel in the United States are
civil matters, to be determined by a preponderance of
the evidence between the parties through litigation in
courtrooms, according to the rules of civil procedure,
where trial by jury is guaranteed as a constitutional
right to either party--where the person bringing the
lawsuit might ultimately being the one who will have
to pay in the determination of the jury.

So, no more of this huffing and puffing from you,
Norm.

It is you who has repeatedly committed the libel, no
matter how often you repeat the big lie otherwise.

Put up, or shut up.



--- "Norman G. Kurland" <thirdway@cesj.org> wrote:

> Ryan, I operate openly so I have nothing to fear. 
> Your background and 
> credentials are hidden.  What do you fear?  Any
> comments made about your 
> character are in response to your abusive behavior. 
> And they accurately 
> describe your nefarious, uncivilized and poisonous
> treatment of 
> participants you disagree with.  No one in the
> ownership movement over 
> the last 40 years has ever accused me of resorting
> to insult.  That's 
> not my style.  It is yours.  You have driven many
> people out of the 
> ownership discussions and you deserve to be
> ostracized from the group.  
> You have not contributed to any discussion of
> ownership and you should 
> resign. 
> 
> Incidentally, there is nothing deceptive in using
> the JBM trademark in 
> our business, since I invented it and have written
> extensively on the 
> subject and have given classes and lectures on the
> subject of 
> "Justice-Based Management" all over the globe.  I
> believe in the moral 
> principles and methodology underlying this
> innovative approach to 
> corporate management. So why should I hesitate to
> identify with it in my 
> professional work?  And I'm not at all ashamed of
> earning money when I 
> contribute a valuable service to my clients. 
> 
> You'll note that, while our Equity Expansion
> International, Inc. web 
> site at www.eei-consultants.com identifies and has a
> link to our 
> all-volunteer Center for Economic and Social
> Justice's web site at 
> www.cesj.org, CESJ does not include EEI in its
> "Other Useful Sites" 
> button on the CESJ home page.   While EEI
> contributes part of its 
> profits to the all-volunteer CESJ, each has its own
> functional relevance 
> to the Just Third Way revolution and we considered
> it inappropriate for 
> the non-profit to support a profit-making company
> that is competing with 
> other consultant groups in the ownership field. 
> Thus, I feel no 
> conflict of interest among my different roles in
> different 
> organizations.  Each is compatible with my
> commitment to changing the 
> money and credit systems of the world and corporate
> governance to 
> empower the non-rich and give them an equal
> opportunity with the rich, 
> as Lincoln said, to become rich.  And I hope that
> some of those who read 
> my responses to you will become curious enough to go
> to the CESJ and EEI 
> web sites to see how outrageous your charges are. 
> In that regard, 
> you'll inadvertently do some good for the world.
> 
> Which reminds me, are you some rich kid who has
> never done a lick of 
> work in his life?  Can you say that you've ever done
> anything that has 
> resulted in helping non-rich people to get rich. 
> I'm proud to say my 
> work has helped put over 10 million Americans in
> that position, and 
> without that work there would be no COG or Ohio
> Center for Employee 
> Ownership.  While I am one of the harshest critics
> of abusive ESOP (and 
> on the point that ESOPs under present laws are
> vulnerable to abuse, I 
> agree with you), one of the reasons I will no longer
> take on a client 
> that does not adopt Justice-Based Management in
> installing an ESOP is to 
> structure corporate governance systems to minimize
> the risk of any 
> abuse.  But I doubt if you have ever worked as a
> professional, so you 
> probably would not understand how to build justice
> into the corporate 
> world. 
> 
> Again, I'm surprised that Wally Klink and Vic
> Bridger has not put you on 
> a leash.  Perhaps they don't yet realize how harmful
> you've been to 
> spreading respect and understanding of Douglas'
> social credit ideas.  
> And I'm still hopeful that John Logue and Dan Bell
> will wake up to the 
> damage you are doing to their reputations.
> 
> Norm Kurland
> 
> William B. Ryan wrote:
> 
> >Then it is you who has something to worry about,
> Norm,
> >inasmuch as it is you who has committed the libel
> >repeatedly--a little matter of things like
> comparing
> >someone who takes issue with you to "terrorists
> hiding
> >in caves," "satanic," "poisonous," "snake," etc.,
> >which would be libelous per se, if it were not for
> the
> >fact that when doing so, you come off as a raving
> >idiot who is off his medication, and are to be
> pitied.
> >
> >Might I also remind you that the reckless
> accusation
> >of libel is itself libelous, when done in a public
> >forum?
> >
> >And most significantly, you still haven't explained
> >why the ostentatious display of the self-awarded
> "JBM
> >mark" on your for profit Website is not a deceptive
> >trade practice.
> >
> >
> >--- "Norman G. Kurland" <thirdway@cesj.org> wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Libel is not protected speech under the First
> >>Amendment, in case you 
> >>didn't know.
> >>
> >> 


                
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