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Monetary Reform Discussion


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Re: MONETARY: Monetary Reform -- Reply to "John Medaille"



[Ryan]  I will not presume to speak for Wally Klinck, but will insert my 
comments below
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>From :   John Médaille <john@medaille.com>  
 
Reply-To :   monetaryreform@cog.kent.edu  
To :   monetaryreform@cog.kent.edu,COG Monetary Reform 
<monetaryreform@cog.kent.edu>  
Subject :   Re: MONETARY: Monetary Reform -- Reply to "John Medaille"  
Date :   Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:03:09 -0500  
At 12:44 AM 10/24/2002 -0600, Wallace M. Klinck wrote: 
    Attention:  John Medaille, Dan Parker and others. 

Thank you, John,  for your interesting e-mail message.  I attach some documents 
re Social Credit for your perusal. 
Says's law becomes increasingly invalid with the introduction of capital 
relative to labor under the existing system of banking (money being issued 
essentially only for production and never for consumption, except for 
escalating consumer debt which must be recovered from future production which 
is the same thing).  This transfers costs from an earlier cycle of production 
as a charge against a future cycle with which it has nothing to do 
realistically.  The physical (as opposed to the financial) 
 

[Médaille] I've heard this several times. Could you distinguish for me 
"physical" vs. "financial" costs.
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[Ryan]  There are real costs in terms of labor and resources actually utilized 
in the process of production.  In this respect "real costs" are "physical 
costs."  They do not necessarily correspond to the numbers written down by 
accountants or economists.
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    cost of production is fully met when that production is completed and ready 
for use.  Fortunately, the defect in financial accountancy which leads to an 
exponential deficiency of purchasing-power relative to financial cost provides 
the the opportunity to address the problem.  The issue is the ownership of 
credit, the charging of interest on money created as debt and fundamentally the 
premature cancellation of purchasing-power in respect of repayment of capital 
loans (the reinvestment of saving creates new costs without creating new 
purchasing-power and creates a deficiency in a similar matter).  The consumer 
is charged, rightly, with capital depreciation but wrongly not credited with 
capital appreciation.  Major Clifford Hugh Douglas dealt with all these 
problems beginning as early as 1918.  We should be concerned not about a just 
wage but about providing sufficiency of income via a Just Price (jus pretium) a 
modern interpretation upon which Douglas based his analysis and p
rescriptions--a concept upon which the Church has a locus standi.  A number of 
Catholic thinkers were apprised of Douglas's "Social Credit" and were strong 
supporters. 
 

[Médaille] Could you be more specific about this last point. Which "Catholic 
thinkers" would you recommend?
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    The ideal price level is zero, 
 

[Médaille] Really? Why? I certainly don't want to sell my services for nothing.
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[Ryan]  Wally's point here is not Social Credit, strictly speaking, but it is 
not necessarily inconsistent with Social Credit.  He is speaking of the 
effective price to the consumer in the hypothetical future where robotic 
production has displaced human labor in its totality at the theoretical limit.  
You would not have to sell your services for nothing.  If you sell your 
services for X, the price to the consumer is zero if the compensated price 
rebate paid to you + the consumer dividend = X.
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    the ideal employment rate is zero and the Just Price is financial price 
times the mean production rate over the mean consumption rate in a given 
period. 
 

[Médaille]  What are the mechanics of this? For example, is there a gov't 
agency that sets "just price"? Or is this just a theoretical paradigm? And how 
are these "mean" rates computed?
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[Ryan]  The Just Price is just to the producer and just to the consumer.  This 
means that the producer can recover his costs of production and the consumer 
can purchase all that the producer can reasonably produce.  The absolute 
numerical value assigned to the price is determined by the market.  The mean 
production rate and mean consumption rate are brought into equality through the 
Compensated Price and Dividend.
----------   

      The money issued as debt (created) by the banking system belongs neither 
to the banks nor the government but to the community and should be issued (for 
consumption) without debt in the form of consumer dividends and compensation to 
prices. 
 

[Médaille] Again, how exactly does this work? Is is like a reverse sales tax? 
Do we get a check in the mail (from whom?)?
----------

[Ryan]  I don't like the term "without debt."  It infers that money is 
something physical that circulates perpetually.  Real money is a contract that 
disappears when its terms are fulfilled.  That is the ticket or "chartal" 
concept of money.

Yes, the Compensated Price is analogous to a reverse sales tax.  It could be a 
check.  There are other possibilities.
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      Not everyone is interested in owning capital--but all should be 
beneficiaries of the proceeds of capital which emanate increasingly from an 
accumulation of factors which we call the Cultural Heritage.  The proposal to 
finance acquisition of capital (as per the suggestions of Binary Economics) by 
issue of more debt in circumstances which currently already  create exponential 
unrepayabale debt hardly seems a realistic way to achieve a self-liquidating 
price-system.  To repeat, the very operation of the existing price-system 
operating under debt-finance creates the deficiency--but fortunately provides 
thereby the  very opportunity to correct the problem via realistic financial 
accountancy. 
Your observations are welcome. 
 

[Médaille] BTW, I see my name in the subject line, but I can't recall posting 
anything but a brief comment to the monetary list. What post are you replying 
to? 


John C. Médaille 

"A dead thing can go with the stream... 
but only a living thing can go against it." 
        -G. K. Chesterton 
http://www.medaille.com/distributivism.htm 
john@medaille.com 
 
 

 
--

On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:03:09  
 John Médaille wrote:



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