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Monetary Reform Discussion


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Re: MONETARY: Discussing the unjust monopoly



Some ideas to consider from the discussion:
 
A stable price system might be preferable to a counterflationary system, in
that falling prices create well-known problems for wholesalers and others
who must hold inventory.  Additionally the purchasing power shortage causes
problems for the poor due to price 'stickiness' (i.e. sellers are reluctant
to drop prices).  For example, when productive capacity was rapidly increasing,
yet the money supply was growing slowly in the late 1800's, many suffered from
a shortage of purchasing power, until the gold strike in Klondike and elsewhere.
Interest would have exacerbated this problem, but the removal of interest will
not remove the problems caused by the time-lag between a lower ratio of money
to goods and services available, and price levels.
 
Douglasite Social Crediters advocate the compensated price to eliminate this
problem, but  personally I think a less bureaucratic solution is preferable.
 
The advocation of the gold standard by many in the Islamic world fails to
take into account that it was the gold standard that led us to where we are
today.  Alexander de Mar, in his Science of Money, avers usury was child's
play compared to the propensity of gold to centralize wealth and power.
 
Quite often, when it is pointed out that a shortage of gold can and
will hold back the development of the true, thermodynamic realities of wealth
creation, it is held that a sliding gold price level would be put in place.  Which
is to say, there is no standard, and such a process is as open to abuse.
 
This would account for the Islamic view cited below that Social Credit money is
fiat money and inflationary in nature when it is neither.  The Socred money issuance
is approximated on the actual wealth production capability of the system under
consideration.  It is backed by actual wealth creation capabilities, not some
symbolic representation, which can drift from the reality.
 
On the other hand, if an economy is producing 100x of goods and
services, and 100 oz of gold are in circulation, a discovery of another
100oz of gold will lead to de facto fiat money, and inflation.  the Internet
article Fool's Gold, by Robert Carroll I think, gives several other reasons
why the gold standard is undesirable. 
 
Regarding the 'big tent' approach offered by the uncompromising Seven Steps to
Justice, one could ask whether there should be a one-size-fits-all solution to the
current monetary problem.  Maybe there should be a multi-level currency, with
variations on national and/or local currencies to account for local conditions and
preferences.  The national currency could hook into a  world currency, which could
be the common ground for international trading.  Additionally, if local currencies
become popular, there could be cases where there is direct trading, as in the
UNILETS system, where LETS proponent world wide make exchanges.  A lot of
this might even go into the 'gifting' catagory, as a sane monetary system lifts the
caul of a scarcity mentality, along with poverty, in the midst of plenty. However,
there is no reason that a pure Social Credit economy could not exist in one country
or region, and interact well with a pure system of binary economics in the next
country.
 
In any case, there is lots of room for common effort for monetary reform, especially
from a 'first things first' perspective.  In my opinion, this is building the pressure on t
he current system to not only provide the resources needed for researching solutions,
but also to allow *unfettered* experiments to proliferate.  I think Manitoba Canada
ran a mincome experiment which showed a guaranteed income resulted in a
single digit disincentive regarding those wanting to work.
 
A last point concerns Norm Kurland's comment on what is politically realistic.
When England abandoned the gold standard (just before WWI for the first time,
I think), or the U.S. (1971?), they were doing what would have deemed politically
impossible by most.  To rephrase a social credit saying, I'd say what is physically
possible is politically possible.  It wasn't so long ago, the political reality was
held to be that society would be entering into a world of liesure, with 20 hour
work weeks, and retirement at 50 years of age. This was closer to the reality
of what is possible and desirable, and this concept will come full circle in my
opinion.  The current busy-ness is not only damaging to an individual's psyche,
but to the environment as well. 
 
Regards
 
Dan Parker
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: MONETARY: Discussing the unjust monopoly

Dan,
You ask if there has been a calculation as to what the guaranteed income is likely to be.  In the Seven Steps two basic incomes are possible.  The first basic income is from binary wide ownership.  There has been much debate on the amount of income it would provide.  Thus for reasons to do with the nature of binary economics and its associated prescriptions, share payouts could be as much as eight or nine times what is paid out at present (but people whose minds are fixed in the existing paradigm never seem to understand this).  Moreover, there are questions e.g. as to what point in time it is wished to assess the income and how long it would take to fully implement the binary economy (while a non-binary sector continues).  Furthermore, there are questions as to the assumed pace of technical advance etc etc etc
 
    Those things said, I expect that most binary economists would generally agree that a substantial income  of, say, $15-25,000 per adult per year would easily be obtainable after 15 years or so of binary policy (and children would have their own, but  smaller, income, even a small income at birth, sufficient to cover basic need).  In another posting to this Group, Norm Kurland says that $30,000 is achievable by the age of 65. Go to the Center for Economic and Social Justice website at cesj.org  and have a look at, for example, Norm's A New Look at Prices and Money (this paper is also an appendix in the Seven Steps book).  I also recommend the cesj website for other matters e.g. the Capital Homestead Act and Norm's Saving Social Security paper (in another posting to this Group)
 
    Now a crucial point about binary economics is that it brings in all the new productive investment that is required, balances supply and demand, creates new, more powerful consumers from the previously capitalless AND does this with interest-free (repayable) money and, in practice, removes the practice of taking interest from large sectors of the economy (among other things, interest is a big factor in causing inflation)  Thus new assets and consumers are brought into being money while the original money is paid back AND is cancellable.
 
    This creates a healthy economy with deeply COUNTER-INFLATIONARY forces in the sense that there will be more wealth, more wealth-creating capital, but a LOWERING of prices.
 
    At this point, Norm Kurland, for example, and other binary economists,  understandably prefer simply that there be the binary counter-inflationary situation.    However, Peter Challen and I with others realised that if, instead, a STABLE level of prices is preferred, then the way is open to introduce the Social Credit proposal to balance the binary counter-inflationary effect.  This means that debt-free money can be issued as the second basic income sufficient to keep stable the level of prices. However, my view is that there has to be the binary counter-inflation first (or, at least, beginning to happen) before there can be debt-free issuance.
 
 
 Dan, you are right in referring to the Huber and Robertson debht-free issuance proposal and the relationship between the binary aspect and the Huber/Robertson aspect is expected to be greatly discussed at a conference near Birmingham (UK) next week (I believe James Robertson will be present).  There is a very important point here -- the Seven Steps are intended to provide a format within which most (if not all) groups who understand monetary reform, basic income etc can find a home and create a situation in which, by supporting the Seven Steps, they will achieve their goals much more easily than if they continue (as at present), thinking that their own proposal is absolutely right and everybody else is absolutely wrong. 
 
    There is no compromise in the Seven Steps but -- quite remarkably -- it allows Social Credit and Binary Economics to co-operate (assuming that social crediters and binary economists wish to co-operate), accepts the reality of market-driven economies and, even more remarkably, should be acceptable to the Islamic world.  The recent conference in Malaysia (called by PM Mahathir) was highly significant because, although nine tenths of the speakers were crying out for gold as national currency there are problems with that (not least because gold proponents have no solutions for poverty, rich-poor division, position of women etc).  (Significantly, PM Mahathir has ruled out gold for the national currency).   BUT Peter and I could claim (and, by golly, we did!) that the binary aspects of the Steps are counter-inflationary thereby INCREASING the value of money (that shook an Islamic conference that did not, at first, understand that fiat money, (if made repayble and cancellable and directed at capital investment), can INCREASE the value of money). 
 
     I should add here that at the recent Malysia conference (concerned with the gold dinar and a stable and just monetary system), NO proponent of debt-free money alone (e.g. Social Credit) was invited and it was inconceivable that they would have been because debt-free (non-repayable) money is viewed by Islam as both fiat and inflationary.  Peter and I (plus Bernard Lietaer with his well-conceived terra based on a basket of commodites (rather than gold alone) for valuing and settling international trade) were the ONLY Westerners to be invited (with the exception of the leader of the British Islamic party and Tarek el Diwany, the excellent author on the banking system and interest).  Peter and I generated much interest among the academics of the International Islamic University who hosted the conference and we were kindly received by the Prime Minister's special adviser on finance at a meeting of well over an hour.
 
    In summary, the Seven Steps allow binary economics AND Social Credit AND Islam AND a lot of other groups and lines of thinking to co-operate together.  Assuming, that is, that they wish to co-operate as opposed to continue to fight each other.  As Norm says, control over money and credit is the key to economic independence and all who understand that (and that interest is largely unnecessary) should pull together.
 
    I ought to add that the Four Demands paper (sent to this Group a year or so ago) was at the early stages of thinking and the Seven Steps book  was massively developed thereafter.
 
Rodney Shakespeare.